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It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. I think it's fun to always have something to look forward to other than getting fitter and faster.Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle. Cycling, for me is not only a passion, but a hobby and a way of life. If you have the money and want to spend it on cycling: go for it.Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.

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And, for 2008, among the "key" specs for each size of Madone and other road bikes are "stack" and "reach".

With road bikes having "traditional" geometry, someone who rode a size 58 could safely assume that any "traditional" size 58 would also provide a good fit, regardless of brand or model. With the newer "compact" geometry and sloping top tubes, traditional sizing don't mean anything, "standover" means very little, and "top tube" measurements may be confusing folks more than helping them.

Those that ride their bikes to get fitter and faster, and those who buy bicycles to pose with at the local cafe. I look at my bike not only as a tool for gaining fitness and speed, but also a project I like to work on and add to with schwag when I can afford it. It's fun to upgrade things that don't need it just because you can. Pcad would become even more of a target than he is now. Those brakes are just too weight-weenie-OCP-over-the-top. It would sap all my energy explaining them to other roadies and defending myself on BF. This item is causing a ripple in the Pcad Time Space Continuum. I don't own them, but I've NEVER heard a story about, "I was coming down this wicked hill, and an old lady was crossing the street in front of me and I couldn't stop in time. I don't own them, but I've NEVER heard a story about, "I was coming down this wicked hill, and an old lady was crossing the street in front of me and I couldn't stop in time. But the baggage I would carry into the dating scene would swamp that 100 gram weight savings.

I'll take fitness and cycling "ability" over "bling" and fancy bicycle parts any day of the week. From a cost/performance standpoint, they are silly, as are many weight-weenie things. But from a pure-performance standpoint, they work spectacularly well if set up correctly. Are they the best from a weight-weenie perspective? Pcad would become even more of a target than he is now. If only I'd had Dura-Ace brakes with the salmon koolstop pads and some nice, somwhat conservative teflon brake cables she would be here to hit you with a handbag today." The hate is Schwagg related. If only I'd had Dura-Ace brakes with the salmon koolstop pads and some nice, somwhat conservative teflon brake cables she would be here to hit you with a handbag today." The hate is Schwagg related. If only I'd had Dura-Ace brakes with the salmon koolstop pads and some nice, somwhat conservative teflon brake cables she would be here to hit you with a handbag today." The hate is Schwagg related.

A problem with "stack" and "reach" is that the only way to know your "ideal" stack and reach is to find a bike that fits you perfectly and then measure find out what the stack and reach are...write down those measurements and take them to the store when you buy a bike.

There does not seem to be a way to convert someone's height, leg length, or torso length to "stack" and "reach" the way traditional formulas helped to predict that a guy who was 5'10" with a 34 inch leg length ought to be on a "traditional" size 58 bike.

See my cycling photos at See my bikes at Visit my blog at Lightning Velo Cycling Club: This is interesting, particularly since I am thinking about getting a custom-made bike, not because I need custom fitting, necessarily, but because I want certain features that aren't common.

So I measured my current bikes, a 55 Lemond (compact) and an older 53 Lemond (traditional), and found some surprising 'paradoxes' in saddle to bar length, etc.

-- Ernest Hemingway 1 Having used some crappy non weight-weenie brakes that have gotten me into trouble more than once, I don't understand why someone would compromise stopping power for such a tiny weight saving. I don't spend money on much else so for me, it's justified.

It really does come down to the fact that there are two types of cyclist. I like to consider myself option C when it comes to the two types of cyclist mentioned earlier. Did I NEED ceramic bearings in my Mavic Ksyrium ES wheels? I like to field questions from people who think my bike looks cool, and if I hadn't already bought some 0G-07s and had an extra 6, I might be buying a set of the Red Negative-Gs. Those brakes are just too weight-weenie-OCP-over-the-top. It would sap all my energy explaining them to other roadies and defending myself on BF. This item is causing a ripple in the Pcad Time Space Continuum. Sadly for Pcad she has repeatedly informed me that in any marital dispute she will be representing Mrs. I would have the Zero G's as a consolation prize of course.

See the Trek "Stack" and "Reach" diagram at: at...

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